June 24th, 2002


GM instruction sheet

1. Have your players make AD&D (d20) characters
2. GM an AD&D (d20) game
3. Have your players make GURPS characters
4. GM a GURPS game
5. Have your players make Deadlands characters
6. GM a Deadlands game
7. Have your players make Star Wars (1st edition) characters
8. GM a Star Wars (1st edition) game
9. Have your players make RIFTS characters
10. GM a RIFTS game
11. Have your players make Champions (HERO 5th edition) characters
12. GM a Champions (HERO 5th edition) game
13. Have your players make Legend of the Five Rings characters
14. GM a Legend of the Five Rings game
15. Have your players make Shadowrun characters
16. GM a Shadowrun game
17. Have your players make TORG characters
18. GM a TORG game
19. Have your players make Mage (White Wolf) characters
20. GM a Mage (White Wolf) game
21. Realize d20 sucks in more ways than one

Speaking as someone who has been role-playing for 18 years and has worked in a gaming store, I firmly believe that anyone who has a working knowledge of even a handful of RPGs will come to realize that, while AD&D (d20) is the most popular because it was the first big RPG in the late 70s it still pales in comparison to the better-working game systems that are able to encompass gritty realism, epic fantasy, and/or ease of play
Sometimes AD&D (d20) can be easy to play simply because it's well known, but just because something is well known doesn't mean it's the best. The number one reason why a game is never played is because a gamer is afraid to learn a new system, and I strongly encourage every gamer reading this post to try something new, or just something different, with an open mind and an honest curiousity that maybe there is something better out there, EVEN if what you're trying for the first time is a d20 game.

I love D20, me!

Hi all, I've only been on LJ for about two weeks now, and this is my first proper post on the Roleplayers Groups. I've noticed there's a few vocal D20 bashers out there, and whilst I can can understand your poitn of view, I thought it would be a nice change to have a positive D20 post up here.

I've been Rping for about 12 years now, my first "proper" rpg was the red "D&D Basic Set", before we moved onto AD&D 2nd Ed and finally through GURPS, The Storyteller System, MET, Shadowrun, Earthdawn, CoC, Everway, SAGA, Alternity and finally back to D&D in time for 3rd Ed. Most of my regular groups are similarly experienced, or more so.

I have to say I like D&D, and the D20 system in general. The new version of the system is streamlined enough for a newbie to pick up, and it models a "heroic reality" quite nicely, and I've found the use of miniatures in game and the support for grid-based combat to be a welcome one.

Having one system we can rely upon for a series of games is exceptionally useful. In my groups we have everything from Rules Lawyers par exellance to people who find even the most basic set of rules a struggle master. Both these disparate camps really rate the D20 system. I've found it's a versatile one, as in the last year I've seen the system used to model Sci-Fi Conspiracy (ala The X-files), Near Future Intrigue, Dark Low Fantasy, Space Opera and of course, the High Fantasy genre it was first developed for.

Whereas I don't claim it can do everything, it's certainly a powerful and flexible system which serves once again as an excellent starting point for newcomers to the hobby.

Thell that's my tuppence worth, you may commence flaming.. :-)

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  • blark

Though it's been said many times, many ways...

Making a new post cos I don't feel like commenting...

I've been a member of/reading this group since nearly its inception, and generally like what I read... But for the love of Pete (whoever he is), what's gotten into the group lately? Seems like all people wanna do is complain about what systems they hate or post 100 times about how great their favorite system is. I know the Community Info page says "Tell us what you like, what you don't like, and what game you compulsively play...," but it does get kind of monotonous after awhile.

Why is there such a need to complain about a system? If you don't like it, don't play it. Don't buy books that use the system. Convert the world to a system you DO like, all it takes is a little effort. No one is holding a gun to your head saying "Play d20 or else!" It goes for d20, or the White Wolf MET system, or Warhammer, or whatever...

And if someone god-forbid likes something you hate, is it really necessary to rip into them for 10-20 posts just to tell them how wrong they are? If something bothers you that much, think of all the time and brain cells your using up hating it. Hell, you could be GAMING with that time, or converting something to a system you do like. Or you could just suck it up and deal with it. I don't like paying my rent, but it's just something I have to do, since I don't like the alternative of living on the street. What system a game is isn't life or death.

Okay, I'm done. Feel free to flame me now.
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As the guy who started this, I guess I should speak up.

I dont care what you guys discuss so long as it is RP related. If that means you want to talk about how D20 sucks, I really couldn't give a rip even though I disagree.

I am not procensorship and won't allow other people on this group to try to censor this community. Unless you are directly violating the community bio, you are free to post whatever you think.

You may think that talking about how much someone hates a system is an invalid topic, but it isn't. It sparks roleplaying related discussion which is what this community is for.

Please don't try to censor my community, it just annoys me.

Because there was all this talk about negativity

Dear RPG player,

I'm sure you've already started to suspect it, but let me make this absolutely clear. Your favorite RPG sucks and it is nowhere near as deep and well designed as my favorite RPG.

Lets go through it step by step, shall we?

Did a bunch of trained monkeys develop this system? I've never read a more bonehead way to represent the intricate physics of life. My favorite RPG manages to handle the complexities of life while still being simple and quick to use. Yours, on the other hand, is completely unrealistic and cumbersome. There is far too much math involved and when you finally get down to determining whether you succeed or not, the percentages of success are completely inaccurate.

Character Gen
Could this be more slow and boring? All the flow charts aren't helpful at all and the one area that needs a flow chart doesn't have one. And to make it even worse, it is lacking all the cool concepts, classes, and races that my favorite RPG has. All it has are stupid kiddy races and classes instead.

You know, it isn't that hard to create a decent RPG world to interact with. Yet your game totally screwed it all up. I mean, come on! Have you actually read the world descriptions? I thought the giant bubble on Prisoner was stupid, but that isn't anything compared to your favorite game. The ass level of the setting is epic. And the feature characters are pathetic, I've read more convincing characters in an Anne Rice porn novel.

Publishing Quality
Who put this book together? A 6 year old? How could you even manage to read this thing. There are so many glaring errors and absolutely terrible pieces of art I don't even want to begin. Every page is a nut sack slapping excursion into pain. Now take a look at my favorite RPG. Notice all the beautiful art and how well editted it is? See how it doesn't fall apart at the seams when you touch it. What were you thinking when you bought this? It looks more like a childs coloring book than a roleplaying game.

Your favorite game is very poorly constructed and you should be playing my favorite game instead. But you aren't because you're a mouth breathing moron.

Love and Hugs,
-Inevitability >:)

Squabbling Over Systems

OK ... I'd like to add my voice to the chorus of those who think that the squabbling is getting silly. While numerous points are so horribly made that it gets me laughing, as a whole, it's not doing much for me, and getting old.

I suspect that this is the case for others as well.

So ... please, discuss the merits and drawbacks of different rule systems. Avoid things like:

D20 is good for newbies and lazy people ... this implies that you're a bad roleplayer, or lazy, if you play any d20 games. Not so. This just means that you're using one of the more popular systems out there.

Do include things like:

i think abstractions are not cool ... this is stating your preference for gaming style, giving those you are debating with some background on why you might like or dislike a given game. Although it does also open you up to posts telling you why abstraction can be good.

And whatever you do, don't use the length of time you've been playing as the "proof" of what you say. There is someone in this community who has played longer than you, and they disagree.

But please, the most important thing to remember is that there is no such thing as a twinky game, or a game that causes good roleplaying, just because of the system. Some games may encourage one or the other with varying degrees of success, but it comes down to the players in the end, not the game itself.
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Crappy attempt to make people come to your store????

Hello friends,

My name is Beth and I have a problem. Only people in or around Sacramento, CA can help me with this one. I own a comic store in Elk Grove. There is a guy named Pat that is too attracted to me. He asks me out every day and I turn him down. He is a total sweetheart, but just not my type. One of the other people that come into my store is my type. I would like to date this guy, but I can't without hurting Pat's feelings. I don't want to do that. I would like anyone that is over 18 and is interested in anime or RPG's to either e-mail me or show up at my store on anime night to meet Pat. There is no pressure, i just need a little help. Anime night is every monday night @ 6:30p and ends sometime after 9p. Its free and real fun anyways. The address is 9738-a Elk Grove-Florin rd. Elk Grove, CA 95624 Call the store for directions and more info (916) 714-3223 We also sell real cool things if you ever wanna stop by just to look around at stuff. We have RPG's, CCG's, comic books, new and old, and we can order any anime dvd's.
Thank you for your time, and I hope to see you help me.


Got this and thought it was somewhat amusing. What do you think?
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